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Guest KGBelectronics

So how much for version 4 ???

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As is widely abhorred, I am not shy about expressing my opinions on anything from the width of a CC web site to the need to impeach that ****ing criminal jerk in the white house.

But I am late to this CC4 discussion and therefore will play shy guy at the dance, at least for a while. I will behave. I will behave. I will behave . . .

I too hope that there is a method that will allow me as a developer and loyal promoter of CubeCart to be able to demo of CC4 as the selling tool I have used to create the sites I've built and licensed in CC3.

I don't think that a limited time version will do. I think it may have taken me 6 months before I found my first customer and then another 6 months before the second. It was only around customer #4 that I figured out how to sell sites built on CC. Offhand I think the one for which I will start later this week will be CC store #8. Please don't ask how I d0 it.

As I've said previously in other forae, I require all my clients to support CC by paying for a license.

With sincere respect for Al's integrity and honesty - and good business sense - I trust he will find a way to accommodate those of us who have demonstrated their support for CC.

I wouldn't mind paying the fee for the first copy and then getting a developer's refund or discount on subsequent copies for sites built for other parties. In fact I'm pretty much open to any reasonable suggestion that encourages us to work together.

See, now? I can be polite and diplomatic when I really want to.

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It might sound late in the day but the week before release will be dedicated to how we release it the final prices and packages available. For now we have to concentrate on the security audit and PayPal Pro UK integration.

Hopefully you will appreciate that we are more concerned with making a product we are proud of than taking all your money. This thread has given rise to all the issues I need to take into account and I will do all I can to make it suit the majorities requirements as best as possible.

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Guest

Yes the point is the those developing modifications make money.

However, I am sure all those buying modifications would like to know that they have been fully tested.

It means we also know that they are serious about developing modifications to have invested in a developers license.

And to say you wouldn't buy something before you start selling something... surely all businesses do that? You buy computers, offices, etc, etc. It is just another cost in a business.

If you are creating only free mods I can understand but the developers license is meant for those who want to make money.

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Guest pete

Before Mike Vick became a symbol of evil I might have used the term "I don't have a dog in this fight", but I guess that is politically incorrect these days.

So, I'll simply say that if anything I am a buyer of mods and certainly not a creator of mods in any fashion.

But I have been in business for many decades and I must say that the saying "you've got to spend money to make money" certainly applies here. You guys are crying for someone to give you something for nothing, and then use that something to make money.

Well, I'm going to use your mods to make money, and I've been using CC for some time now, shouldn't you give me the mods for free?

You're in business. In order for you to continue in business you have to pruchase some new raw materials. Tough!

You need to suck it up and either pay the price or retire.

You can always charge more for your mods. The cost of the program is going up, so can the cost of the mods. (Keep in mind, I'm a buyer here, not a seller. And I still tell you you can raise your prices. Doesn't mean I'll buy, but that's how real business operates.)

Please don't get the wrong idea here. I have nothing against any of you. And as a long-time small business owner who can proudly say I have helped many ex-employees open their own businesses, I am all for free enterprise and encourage small businesses.

But you guys have to understand that as soon as you start offering something for sale you ARE in business and you should expect not just incoming wealth, but having to pay your own way as far as expenses are concerned. I haven't seen any bookkeeping schemes yet that did not have expense to offset some of the income.

So you need to bear the costs of whatever requirements you have and either absorb them as a cost of doing business or raise your fees accordingly.

But, as Al made clear, don't feel like you are a class apart. You are just using his product to produce income in a manner different than those of us who sell products. But, either way, we are all using CC to enhance our financial condition. I've got to pay for the products I sell, you should have to pay for yours, as well.

Again, nothing personal. It's just that as a businessperson I hate to see other "businesspeople" who don't want the same rules to apply to them. I don't hate modders, in fact I buy from them. Reluctantly at times, since it's only code, not something tangible. And I tell others about them. :) (sound familiar?)

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Guest

Likewise.

If mod developers don't feel they should pay for a developers license until they are making money then they should in return offer all their mods free until those using them make money :)

However, I feel that most mod developers will probably be ok with buying a 'developers' license.

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Guest cntgifts

Yep modders who sell there mdos complaining they need to spend money to be able to make the mods they sell

If i complained here and said why are all the good mods you have to buy, I would get a reply something liek you gotta spend money to make money.

If you guys offered your mods free then i would hope you could get a free license, as it benifits the cubecart users, but we all know you aint gonna do it for free, well the better mods anyway.

Some of you i know make a small fortune with these mods 20-30 bux a pop

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Guest gwizard

I think some may misunderstood my intentions.

We all know that the final price be upon the customer to pay. I was really hoping to avoid that.

If I'll have to buy additional licenses to continue developing then I'll have to rise the price of mods, which I didn't wanted to do. Guess who will bear the costs :)

Besides the price margin issue, there is a simple thing of business model.

As I see it, the basic cart is not suit for everyone for lack of features. That is completely fine as no company, no matter how big, can accommodate everyone needs. That is where the modding community comes into play by allowing people to upgrade their carts with the needed functionality. If there were no modders then there were less license purchases. There is a direct link between the two. For evidence, just read the forums.

Why the notion of making modder life harder (more expensive) is good I really don't understand. You're shooting yourself in the leg here, both customers and modders alike.

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Guest cntgifts

The one thing i dont understand is on "Other " FRee cart systems the modders dont charge for there modification, they do it because they want to contribute to the cart community. But here at Cubecart the modders mostly all charge for there modifications.

So here we need to pay a software fee then we gotta pay for modifications we need. Puts a huge hole in us new in business

Nothign agaisnt cubecart i love it, but why can others run the business on donations, when here at cubecart we gotta get charged money

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Guest gwizard

In free carts like Zen Cart or osCommerce the code is OSS which means you cannot charge for anything based on it. You can, however, charge for stuff that plugs in like templates. Do you want to know the price of osCommerce templates and compare ? Be my guest, you'll be surprised.

Besides, why would I want to work on something so that Al would make more money ?

If it was an Open Source project then it would be different, but this is a commercial application.

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Guest gwizard

You really like to spend money for nothing I see. Oh well....

Look, I agree to pay for license for a store that I actually use as a store but I completely disagree to pay for something I need only for couple of days and then it gets erased. You see the difference ?

Actually, now that I think of it, the idea that was suggested of 1 license that covers multiple installs on 1 domain sounds really good. We all operate a mod shop anyway so it would hold value.

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Guest cntgifts

If you dont want to Pay for a license so you can make mods to sell, then if you got a fre elicense would you make your mods for FREE

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Hello people. :P

I don't want this topic becoming a heavy debate. If it veers too much from the original question we'll have to close it. I personally feel that we have had enough feedback and ideas so far but want to keep freedom of speech and ideas coming and not shut you all off. :)

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Guest gwizard

Actually, some of them ARE free :)

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Guest

gwizard, why would you install a cart instance just to delete it a few days later? That makes ZERO sense.

You should be able to do anything you want with no more than two instances ever. One for your live store (which sells YOUR stuff), and one for testing, modding, breaking, etc.

If you're doing things differently, then perhaps you're not doing it the best way?

Another idea perhaps.....

I have two vBulletin licenses. They are of course on separate domains, but I can run one license key on two sites (one for testing new mods) if one of them is noted as a testing install and is in a .htaccess password-protected directory so that it's not accessible to the public. Perhaps something along these lines would work for developers?

:)

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Guest

vBulletin does indeed call home. It does it every time you log in to the admin panel. It sends a request with the customer number and license number when it checks for newer versions. This is pretty common.

:)

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Guest pete

During the 1990's, while many of you were still in school, I was traveling the highways and byways of these great United States of American demonstrating, selling, installing and then training in the use of several "vertical market" systems. These were point-of-sale systems for retailers, cafeteria systems for schools and industrail plants where students or employees could "swipe" their card and charge meals to a fund paid for by daddy, or as a payroll deduction.

I also sold systems to tow truck and fleet operators that allowed them to dispatch and bill their services, anlong with GPS vehicle tracking systems to keep the drivers honest.

I sold maybe a dozen or so different software programs. Virtually all were written by companies of from one to less than ten employees. And they were all developed on various "developer platforms." None of these platforms were (nor still are) free. They had to by the main complier package and various Software Developer Kits for specialized apps. And the prices were thousands, not hundreds.

You guys don't realize how well off you have it. You're working with PHP. What's the total amount you ever spent for PHP? Or HTML? Most of your real developers tools are free to all.

I spent about 10 years selling that stuff, dealing mostly with guys at Al's level. Made some great friends, actually travelled to about 40 states and would never have gotten to Bull Head City Arizona if I had not been selling tow truck software and GPS.

I agree that some of the suggestions really deserve some consideration. Maybe a "certified enhancer" or a discount on packages for resale. If you are requiriing your customers to register, then why not make something on the deal.

As somone who has resold software for nearly 20 years, I'd suggest a deepening discount, 1 full price, 2 or 2 and 3 a little less, with the discount deepening as more units are sold. I have never agreed with the "pay for them ahead of time and own the licenses" method. The developers I sold for never required me to buy in any quantity, but some did give me a better price as I sold mere.

When I was selling those packages I was driving 40,000+ miles a year, buying plane tickets and paying motel bills in addtion to employees and trade show expenses. And you guys are complaining about a couple of hundred bucks, working from your home or dorm room.

Pretty easy money, I'd say.

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Guest Brivtech

They had to by the main complier package and various Software Developer Kits for specialized apps. And the prices were thousands, not hundreds.

Yes, I remember dealing with system like this, for instance, a typical basic EDI system would cost about £5000, there were little in the way of alternatives, not to mention probably needing an ISDN connection to go with it, ISDN modem, special server, and that's before you even connected to the thing! Compare that to now, and that technology is largely replaced by database applications running through the internet - For a fraction of the price - Use you existing broadband, straight onto your desktop. It's a dream.

I agree that some of the suggestions really deserve some consideration. Maybe a "certified enhancer" or a discount on packages for resale. If you are requiriing your customers to register, then why not make something on the deal.

The discount by volume of licenses purchased seems more than fair to me - It covers reselling as well. That's already been discussed, and agreed by Al in principal, subject to final details being announced when the time is right for him. It's how the copyright removal keys are already sold. Not a bad idea making it a cumulative purchase quantity discount, rather than a bulk individual order purchase. Certification is probably a minefield for Al, and if I secondguess him correctly, he'll want to steer clear of that for the time being, especially taking into consideration the chequered history of some high profile members of the modding community.

Pretty easy money, I'd say.

I couldn't agree more. Seems in today's society they just don't want to work for the money, want everything for free.

My own thoughts about this: You need to pay for good quality tools in order to achieve a result. I'm sure most of you here probably use Dreamweaver, which costs money (Unless you mooch off piracy), but the cost is justified in the result you achieve with it - Like programming a MOD that you would resell, or structuring and designing a skin, probably for sale again. I can't see how CubeCart is any different, if you're using it as a development tool, then what's the big deal over needing to pay for it as such?

Also, I don't see any validity in the point of needing a license for a few days, then not. If you have a license for a development store, that's your investment. As licenses are transferrable and can also be reset, there's nothing stopping you either resuing the license again on a fresh install, or transferring that license key to a new customer site, the latter would nost you no additional money, as no doubt your customers would be paying for the license within the overall package you're offering them.

I normally use 1 store for all modding, documenting the mods made, so they can be applied to other installations. On a rare occasion, i may find myself needing a second temporary store for special modding work. When I'm done, I would simply get the license key reset, and apply it to a new customer store. There's no wasted investment.

Rebranding is on my wishlist (and I wouldn't mind paying a one-off rebranding license fee if required), but Al, for his reasons has already expressed that he doesn't wish to persue that at this stage in time. On the one hand, it's nice to offer customers the brand CubeCart, in the knowing that it's a well written code, with security testing blah blah, but on the other hand, all customers I deal with woudn't know a cube-box.jpg >> from a >> gocart.gif.

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Guest KatGirl

Ummm....

I don't know if this got off track from my OP or not :-)

Anyway, it was just a question and I will leave it where it stands until such time as V4 is stable and public.

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It made for interesting reading anyway :)

Kudos to Devellion, I hope CubeCart just continues on the path to improvement, and I would echo the comments made by everythingweb way up above. :P As to the current drift of this topic: I, too, have made money from third-party cubecart services, and I have also invested time and money into it - folk who think that people are making small fortunes for nothing by providing mods, skins or services for CubeCart are simply misinformed, I think. I actually work more hours for less money with CubeCart service than at anything else I do, but love (almost) every hour of it, LOL.

At any rate, no worries. Al and company have just continued to do better and better with this software, and surely the continued popularity and upward development will continue.

I am aware these comments may not add much of substance to this dicussion, but I had to pop in and say hello anyway. Carry on :w00t:

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Guest kaskudoo

i am glad to hear that i can use my copyright removal license thing. fantastic. i might just go ahead and install the new v4 as soon as it comes out and risk my store being perfect before the season :)

totally impatient - typically me :P

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Guest gwizard

gwizard, why would you install a cart instance just to delete it a few days later? That makes ZERO sense.

Actually, I was under the impression that once you install the store it binds to that domain and that's it. Didn't know you can reset it or transfer it. How easy is that in action ? Do I need to contact Al for this or it can be done automatically from the CP ?

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Guest Brivtech

It would probably work the way it already works for copyright removal keys - Through the Customer CP. Unless of course, Al has any unannounced plans on changing the system around.

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Our license system checks the IP address and domain it was first installed on. Theoretically you can install it as many times as you want on the same domain.

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