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Paypal have to confirm 4 times


tipawn
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I just want to be sure others are seeing the same as me:

 

1.png

 

 

 

Off to Paypal, log in to that  - Check Delivery Address and Price and continue..

 

Confusion begins:

 

 

2.png

 

 

 

It looks like you need to log into my site again.. Do we select 'Checkout' or 'Paypal' at this stage? but we will hit paypal again as that is what the customer is trying to pay with..

 

Was presented with (At Paypal) Delivery Address again and amount to pay - hit 'Continue' at Paypal and then back here:

 

 

 

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Hit 'Make Payment' and yet another screen appears:

 

 

4.png

 

Hit 'Make Payment' again and we have a notification that payment has been made.

 

To me there seems to be too many screens to go through, this will confuse the customer as they would be thinking they had made payment a few screens ago - or were just unsure ! it's not going to make for an efficient checkout :(

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I am working with a store owner who is experiencing the same issue. My tracer code has revealed that:

 

instance#1: when the customer comes back to CubeCart from the PayPal Payment screen, the browser is not sending back the cookie CubeCart gave to the browser earlier. No cookie, no session continuity.

 

instance#2: the cookie did come back to CubeCart, but the customer was still logged out. I will need to add more tracer code to figure that one out.

 

I fear I am not able to determine why the browser (affects all browsers, or so this store says from conversations with her customers) does not send the cookie to CubeCart when returning from the PayPal site.

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I brought this issue up months and months ago and don't think I was taken too seriously despite repeated tickets about it. I think we have lost a lot of sales because of this. The checkout process is too complicated and this logging out issue just adds to the frustration. Hopefully it will get resolved soon.

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@ayz1

 

I have been thinking about this for a while, well - since I realised there was a problem with the CC Checkout anyway (at first I thought it was something I was doing wrong).

 

"Customer experience is paramount" as we all know.

 

I chose Cubecart because of the support here, I did try a few other eCommerce solutions but found other problems which led me here - I have invested far too much money now to consider another system (had 2x tools made - and spent months in time working out if this is the correct solution for me - I am about £600 in now in terms of developer costs).

 

I have no doubt at all that this problem WILL be resolved - Brian is on the case  (as he has indicated above ) and I know for sure that Al is also aware of the issue - for anybody offering an eCommerce solution such as Cubecart the developers will of course realise that the 'Checkout' is the crucial part of any sale so will fix it.

 

I can't open my business until this is resolved - many are waiting for my 'Grand Opening' so for me to open with an overly complicated payment system will make me a laughing stock so I am prepared to lose money and wait for a fix.

 

I suggest being patient - Cubecart will be the No1 soon, and we will be happy then.

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Is that using the standard PayPal module? The error seems to only occur on my websites when we use PayPal Express. If the user is logged in and then selects PayPal Express at checkout then it seems to trigger the problem. Also when the customer comes back to the website when we use the standard module I don't think they realise they have to complete the final step to make their payment. I think many think they have already paid, especially foreign customers. Hence we get a lot of Pending orders.

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Yes it does cause the error if you click the paypal button - thats what people will do.

 

I just tried the Standard paypal payment gateway and thats easier - more like what people will expect BUT:

 

There are no shiny Paypal buttons.

There is no Confirmation of Payment message.

 

I have my main site on 5.2.6 at the moment - that dreaded lettering tool is working thanks to the combined efforts of Brian/Jonathan. will try the 5..2.8 now and report back.

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Just adding to this thread that I have exact same issue on brand new install with no code changed anywhere.

 

Thought issue might be return Paypal IPN URL setting in Paypal today (as I am changing eCommerce solutions it was set to previous site), did a transaction... held my breath and.....nope. Still no go.

 

Not prepared at this stage to offer free access to my server due to a lot of confidential stuff on it so will have to watch and hope for a fix. Paypal STD does work although putting customers through hoops to  get back to main screen is, to put it mildly, bloody annoying.

 

Have tried 4 different eCommerce solutions last 2 weeks and Cubecart is only one with strange (read - unintuitive) Paypal exit behaviour. 

 

Really need a direct Pay Now >> IPN handler here - as is "normal" practise. Also keen to see order in Paypal summary - as per "normal" Paypal process.

 

I'll keep hacking away, something will turn up, I'm sure.

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It will get fixed, Al and Brian are on it. For now I am using the standard Paypal gateway - it works as I expect and there are at least some order details when going through paypal.

There seem to be no order details when checking out using the paypal plugin.

I checked out lots of other solutions before settling for this, I think cc is the best one available at a one time fee - I will admit I didnt pay much attention to the checkout at first but everything else, to me is nice.

Its just the messing with files I dont really like but thats just because I had somebody make me a tool and unfortunately they went about it in an unusual way according to my new developer chap.. Which means I am forced to mess about.

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It will get fixed, Al and Brian are on it. For now I am using the standard Paypal gateway - it works as I expect and there are at least some order details when going through paypal.

There seem to be no order details when checking out using the paypal plugin.

I checked out lots of other solutions before settling for this, I think cc is the best one available at a one time fee - I will admit I didnt pay much attention to the checkout at first but everything else, to me is nice.

Its just the messing with files I dont really like but thats just because I had somebody make me a tool and unfortunately they went about it in an unusual way according to my new developer chap.. Which means I am forced to mess about.

I concur. Have been running Zencart for nearly 2 years and was happyish but lack of proper Australia Post module required some hard hacks making upgrading difficult (no, make that nigh on impossible).

 

For mine, several other "free" software options have been tested until I finally bit the bullet on this. I have 5 key evaluation points and this has passed 3 of them in less than 24 hours. Yippee!!

 

Eval Point #1 - Was really excited to see the ability to have product volume discounting assigned to my retailers so I could transfer my wholesale ordering over to CC as well. (That's where 90% of my sales are!)

 

Eval Point #2 - Was dissappointed initially not all Aus Post options were available but happy enough that I was able to configure in more options - and it works - well I might add!! Even when AP change their rates (again!!) it's a 2 minute job to fix.

 

Eval Point #3 - Admin configure. Wife hopeless at core but OK to manage products/orders - able to lock her out of the nitty gritty :)

 

Eval Point #4 - Category discounting. Haven't tackled this yet and can't see how but I suspect it's doable - module even?

 

Eval Point #5 - Paypal, COD and invoicing. COD and invoicing seem really good. Paypal - fail atm.  The PP Std checkout process is odd (no, really, it is!) and ofc, this plugin issue is a site killer.

 

And yes, no product details are showing at Paypal although I noticed the movie shows same screen. Not sure whey this was done but customers want to SEE what they're buying before commit and *neither* option has it. This needs work me thinks. Paypal has the vars, just need to populate them. Coding #101, never configure for system, configure for user.

 

Atm, I'm sitting twiddling thumbs and not willing to proceed with dev until this has some priority attached - and fixed. Patience is not my best attribute when I'm committed to progress and results. That's my age showing  :on2long:

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The whole checkout process needs a total rethink. It should be much simpler to make a purchase.

 

I really like Cubecart (run 6 stores on it) and like the fact that it is well supported but this issue is it's Achilles heel. I have a V3 store that has several million £'s worth of sales under it's belt and I would like to upgrade to V5 but there is no way I can do that at present as too many customers are bailing out at checkout on our V5 stores, this doesn't happen on V3.

 

I'm pleased that finally other users are highlighting this problem as it's been an issue I have reported several times since V5 was launched but nothing has ever been done about it despite the requests and suggestions I have made. A totally new checkout module would be the way to go as other solutions are much better at doing this.

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Hi Ayz1,

 

Always open to suggestions so thank for your feedback. We have made improvements for 5.2.8 to lose that annoying shipping confirmation message. This should lose one page load. A temporary link to the latest build can be found here.

 

I don't know if you are saying the checkout process need improving with PayPal or in general? Maybe you think it needs improving because of this bug? There's a lot of confusion in this thread over how it should work, how PayPal express works and how PayPal Standard works. 

 

The movie I posted seems good to me. Were you suggesting improvements on this? If so I'd love to hear your feedback.

 

Thanks. :)

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Hi FCommerce,
 

Eval Point #1 - Was really excited to see the ability to have product volume discounting assigned to my retailers so I could transfer my wholesale ordering over to CC as well. (That's where 90% of my sales are!)

 
>> Great. :)
 

Eval Point #2 - Was dissappointed initially not all Aus Post options were available but happy enough that I was able to configure in more options - and it works - well I might add!! Even when AP change their rates (again!!) it's a 2 minute job to fix.

 
>> Wonderful if you want to share more details maybe we can roll this out so that future upgrades have this functionality without you having to code them back.
 

Eval Point #3 - Admin configure. Wife hopeless at core but OK to manage products/orders - able to lock her out of the nitty gritty  :)

 
>> Cool. Always room for improvement through which it can certainly use.
 

Eval Point #4 - Category discounting. Haven't tackled this yet and can't see how but I suspect it's doable - module even?

 
>> There is no feature for this other than using the bulk tool to reduce prices per category. This can be done form the tab on the product list page.
 

Eval Point #5 - Paypal, COD and invoicing. COD and invoicing seem really good. Paypal - fail atm.  The PP Std checkout process is odd (no, really, it is!) and ofc, this plugin issue is a site killer.

 
>> Still not got to the bottom of this and I've not been able to reproduce the session problems. We will get it fixed up. PayPal Standard should be just fine and the latest build I gave you the link to should make it work properly as the dreaded IE user agent change is patched. It's always IE that makes developers lives hell. I think every developer in the world would agree with that. Hey ho. 
 

And yes, no product details are showing at Paypal although I noticed the movie shows same screen. Not sure whey this was done but customers want to SEE what they're buying before commit and *neither* option has it. This needs work me thinks. Paypal has the vars, just need to populate them. Coding #101, never configure for system, configure for user.

 
>> We have an agreement to integrate this with PayPal in the coming months. I'm awaiting details from our channel partner at PayPal just now.  
 

Atm, I'm sitting twiddling thumbs and not willing to proceed with dev until this has some priority attached - and fixed. Patience is not my best attribute when I'm committed to progress and results. That's my age showing   :on2long:


>> We will get there I promise but I still haven't had full access to any stores reporting this problem to be able to test and fix first hand. I simply have to be able to reproduce this and have access to debug and fix this. I have all browsers and Mac OSX and Windows 7 to test on. 


Support credits are not needed. If someone running a virginal install of 5.2.7 with this problem can open a sales ticket with admin access and FTP access and with information about the environment used to reproduce the problem we will get this sorted.

 

Desperately keen to get this resolved. 

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Hi Al

 

A couple of things. When the customer goes to the first paypal screen in the Order Summary section it should show the customer what they have bought (I'm sure it did this in the past or maybe I've seen it in V3). Also ideally when they come back to the website from PayPal then they should get a message "Thanks for your order and payment it is now being processed" or something similar. They shouldn't have to click on a Make Payment button because in the customers mind they have already paid. This final step is where I think some customers bail out and we end up with a Pending.

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I really appreciate you taking the time to detail your findings.
 

When the customer goes to the first paypal screen in the Order Summary section it should show the customer what they have bought (I'm sure it did this in the past or maybe I've seen it in V3).

 
We are in the process of adding this but waiting for some PayPal admin before we start. It was there once but there were issues with items not adding up due to tax inc and tax ex prices and discounts etc. We are going to reintroduce it if certain tests are passed to make it fail safe. 
 

Also ideally when they come back to the website from PayPal then they should get a message "Thanks for your order and payment it is now being processed" or something similar.

 
This has been added in 5.2.6 and above but only after the "Make Payment" button has been clicked.
 

They shouldn't have to click on a Make Payment button because in the customers mind they have already paid. This final step is where I think some customers bail out and we end up with a Pending.

 
Well at this stage the customer hasn't paid. They have authorized a payment and once the billing and delivery is know only then can tax and shipping be calculated. See the problem. For that reason it can be changed. We could however add some kind of info to help prevent aborted final payment. 
 
Maybe we can add a large "Complete Payment" button at the top with a clear message?

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Ideally the customer should know how much their order is before they go to PayPal and complete the payment there. Is that possible? I'm sure that's the way other eCommerce sites I've used work. A large "Complete Payment" button at the top with a clear message would help if this is not possible.

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No because the billing and shipping address can't be known if they are not logged in and returned from PayPal. The whole point of Express Checkout is to authenticate with PayPal to get this information without having to type it all in. Saying this CC will estimate the tax and shipping based on a local order so it may remain unchanged.

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@ayz1, Need a clear delineation between the quick checkout process and the returning customer process in the dialogue here.

 

As Al stated, quick checkout *must* bring the customer details back from Paypal prior to authorisation and the tests I conducted worked fine in this regard (with the exception of the order details not being available at Paypal.) Customer must realise that without a valid shipping address his order cannot be calculated PP side. ofc, you could ask for shipping address prior to QC but then that negates QC doesn't it?

 

tbh, I have had this discussion 100 times over the years and in my experience 90% of shop developers will tell you "Express Checkout?! Just don't!!" 

 

And calc on shipping is the main reason. It requires a savvy shopper to use it properly, simply because they understand the process. An interesting Paypal "hook" is this oft bandied phrase "increase profits by 20%, use Express Checkout!". Statistics might bear this out but one statistic you can't find is how many people abandon carts when this supposedly "quick" process causes confusion because of the return and subsequent "make payment" second or third step. 

 

My advice. For most of your customers, they're more than willing to do the registration bit and THIS is where you need to be efficient. Make YOUR login and account creation simple and quick and people WILL use it. Determine what info YOU need and ONLY ask for that. All other fields are redundant.

 

(Speaking of which, CC requires phone? Uh uh.... Bad. It's an **electronic** transaction. Phone number "required" scares people off. Needs option to kill it. I've never needed to use a phone in hundreds of online transactions ever!)

 

The irony, all these problems and coding issues with *every* cart simply because a customer doesn't want to enter their address details because of lazyiness or privacy concerns! When 99% of browsers have autofill and the shop MUST have the shipping details on file so they can send the order regardless??? The mind boggles.

 

Alas.. back on topic...

 

Having said all that about quick checkout, a *returning registered customer* (read loyal spender) should be taken straight to Paypal, with completed *and listed* transaction details and the return to site should be a completed and finalised transaction. 2 steps and out. This was the point of this thread mostly and one I totally agree with.

 

I know when I wrote my own package and handler some years back that the entire order including tax/shipping etc. was sent to Paypal for display. The return was a completed transaction wrapped in my IPN handler and I simply determined how to handle the transaction serverside from the gets(). It's a comprehensive send and return list to work with and I struck few, if any issues with it.

 

The whole process was 1) Customer checked out >> redirect to PP >> 2) log at Paypal. 3) PAY NOW >> redirect to site >> Thank you for your order. 

 

Not one button or screen more. End of story.

 

(caveat: I evaluated CC and chose not to go with it partly due to these issues but also because it lacked a key feature I couldn't find in any modules/extensions. The work done and being done by the CC crew is exemplary and their willingness to listen to feedback is a big +1)

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Another customer just emailed me after a failed payment attempt.  This is what she said;

 

"Every time I try to purchase through the PayPal credit card it returns me to the 2nd phase of the order process as described on your website. I do not know if it has, or has not, processed my order and if it did it twice. Please let me know."

 

I checked my Paypal account and she did not make a successful payment at all.  In CC admin her history shows as 'pending' and there are no transaction records whatsoever.

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We have also found this process to be confusing for customers.  Once they come back to the site from PayPal, they end up having to navigate back through pages that they had already completed earlier in the transaction.  We know from follow-up on incomplete orders that many of those customers were under the impression that they were done after coming back to our site after completing their information on PayPal.  

 

We would be inclined to get rid of paypal express entirely, but PayPal also serves as our credit card processor through PayPal Pro and we have yet to find a way to remove the PayPal express radio button option from the payment option screen on our site.. We did remove the express button from the page that immediately precedes the payment option screen in an effort to reduce the number of customers who opt for that payment option.

 

If there is any way to get the order to complete when the customer comes back to the site from PayPal, that would be the best case scenario.  If that is not possible, some sort of clear messaging to the customer when they return to the site would be a step in the right direction.  Thanks.

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@HA1 in a nutshell no. :(

 

Please remember the whole point of Express Checkout is to allow the customer to authenticate THEN pay with PayPal. I think this causes a lot of confusion  as historically this isn't how PayPal works. 

 

I have a meeting with PayPal in the next couple of weeks so I will be sure to bring this up and spend some time going over the integration with them to seek ways to improve it. 

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