Guest twisted Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 After having a FOURTH trnasaction reversed from Paypal, costing me over $180.00, I asked Paypal WHY they had made their decision in the buyers favor, beyond the original "We suspect the purchase was made with fraudulent funds" Didn't get an answer to that, but they did state that I did not qulaify for their Seller Protectin Policy. Why not? Because I am sellign digital products and digital porducts are not covered under that policy! So basically, if you sell digital products, as ALL mine are, as all mod sellers products are, then you're f****d. Any buyer can come along, buy whatever they want, and then dispute the purchase with paypal...with ot without just cause, and Paypal will decide in their favor...eveyr time! You're faced with the cost, you've lost the money on that sale, you've basically just gven away the product, and ... you have NO recourse! None, nada, zero, zip! I'm done venting...i'm pisssed off and I could care less about the typos. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OskMedia Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 maybe you know why io don't use it, use a real merchant account Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest twisted Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 I'm sorry I don't have the money to throw around thast you do Joshua. "Beggars can't be choosers" springs to mind. Apart from some of the policies of Paypal...a "real" merchant account works differently...how? Furthermore....almost all "real" merchant accounts require you to give them, at least, a bank account for depositing of the funds.....to HAVE a bank account, you have to be a US citizen. I'm not........remember? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OskMedia Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 when do you get your citizenship, then how do you get your money out of paypal, stormpay gives you more protection then buyer, and ProPay.com you cnba charge credit cards wroks like paypal and its not a merchant account but then again it is real nice service, --------------Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest twisted Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 I'm at the last stage now...but that could anywhere up to 12 months away. I don't,... I leave it there and spend it as I want, or I have them send me a check which my wife cashes. Stormpay, another auction site I sell on does not recommend them...has had complaints, so I don;t use them. Plus, 6.9% + .69c trans fee? ouch! And you have to pre-fund your account. Propay...required to enter your SSN Additionally...neither are currently integrated into Cubecart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OskMedia Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 stormpay is (SMILE) wjhat aiciton site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OskMedia Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 what auction site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 twisted, i feel you bud... honestly it you were to bring it to court... LOL... and you were using my dw mod.. you could allows show the SQL changed the amount of downloads at the same time the data was transfered into the persons computer :-x but lets not jump to the courts.. maybe a 'merchant agreement' on paypal might help... i know with godaddy.com they make you make a agreement that you can recharge them... i will have to look into it... i am ALWAYS looking for ways to improve myself, and my mods... there has to be a solution.. its just figuring one out :-) Tony~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Sorry to hear about what happened twisted. As for a real merchant paypal is good because there's no monthly fees, most merchants charge you that. And unless it's a ecehck funds are usually available right away. I've looked into other merhcants but unless you wanna to pay a monthly fee and in some cases a setup fee then paypal is best. Ikobo doesn't charge a monthly fee or setup fee but because of there s**t service, low recieving limit and they only accept VISA it's a poor option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 you know.... i've been thinking... (i know it doesnt happen often.. but) if you were to burn cds, even without cases and send then to the address.. (charge 7$ more) you could have a tracking number that would prove the person got the data... and paypal.com would be able to let you have the money... sense you have the tracking number and UPS.com says that the person recieved the package... wow, it would be a little more of a pain.. but for 180$ it might be worth the time. plus then you would have more of an edge to people wanting a backup... its a off PC backup of your work... what better. Tony~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Now thats a way to look at it... the bad thing is with paypal the seller has to have prof the buyer got the good and sending the file on cd is prof. I use paypal but then again i dont sell downloads... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 and you could still have downloadable products... but you could also state a backup copy will be sent Tony~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OskMedia Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 fraud point blank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Osk, i already talked to you about this in private but i will just post this here so everyone is clear on it. I am referring to REALLY sending the CD to the person.. keeping records of the tracking info and be able to track them and have them say 'deleivery confirmed' that way if someone wants there money back, you have a tracking number for paypal to decline them the money however.. you can STILL have instant downloadable products... but you will just have to send it out as while to protect your booty doing this may take a lil extra money (about 7$ via UPS) but.. as twisted knows.. this may be WELL worth it in the long run. haha.. i am always thinking of good ways to save mine and others booties... lol Tony~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 I know this won't help, but here is PayPal's policy for protection sellers: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p...ections-outside This is the point causing problems: Ship tangible goods Intangible goods, such as services or items delivered electronically (i.e, software, music, ebooks, etc.) are not covered by the Seller Protection Policy. This is because proof of shipment is not available for intangible goods and services. The thing I don't get though, is that a customer's entire order history is stored in the database and in their account. Doesn't that count for anything?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 no, cuz it is not proof that you got it or not.. see the problem is i could send someone.. lets say $45 for say... a mod and the person didnt REALLY have it.. so they never sent it.. well i would go tell paypal and they would send me my money back.. but the problem that twisted is having is that he has no PROOF! he sent it.. yeah he has the orders... and sense he uses my dw mod he has it saying in the SQL that the person downloaded it 1,2,3 times.. but paypal doesnt have PROOF that those are real number and he didnt just edit that into it.. now if he sends out a backup CD after the order.. after the digital download... now he has a TRACKING NUMBER.. and what does the mean... now he has PROOF! cuz now paypal.com can goto ups.com look up the tracking number.. and see 'delievery confirmed' and know that the person is just trying to screw twisted out of 45... 80.. 180.. $'s.. Tony~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest twisted Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Thats not a bad idea Tony! 25c for the CD, maybe 75 cents to pack it, and about $4.00 to send it. And I could put a note on the webiste saying that all virtual deliveries WILL BE accompanied by a tangible delivery and why. May cause them to think twice about giving bogus info. Maybe... Well, even if it doesn't, at least that way I will have proof of a tangible, shipped product. saztar...the thinking man's modder! heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 That would suck for the people who actually pay and dont try to jip the creator of that MOD. When I buy a MOD, I want it as soon as possible. I wouldnt want to wait a week or so just to get a MOD. Thats crazy! Thats just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest twisted Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 No no, Chris...saztar is not suggesting that I MAIL people the mod INSTEAD of making it available instantly by download. His suggestion is that a copy of the mod be mailed to the customer, AS WELL, they still get the instant download. This is to simply offer me, as the seller, a measure of proof that I can use in instances where it would not normally qualify for seller protection under Paypals current policies. This is good for the customer too, because then they have a physical copy of the mod in the event that they happen to lose all their own files due to server or computer crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 ooooooh, hold on... you could EVER make sure that their ADDRESS on paypal.com is confirmed :-x or make sure that the share it with you when send the payment... you use my paypal IPN and i could make you a copy of a custom IPN that will make sure that it is.. please if you put 'there will be no refunds of refused packages' they can just refuse the shipment and tell paypal they didnt want it anymore... there are like a 1,000,000 ways to find loop holes in this.. and i am so good at finding them.. lol.. maybe thats why my mods are so secure.. :-x Tony~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OskMedia Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 ummm payloadz.com only way to get around this it uses paypal and it secures you with paypal might wanna check it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 All that sounds good and doing it may stop folks from filing a claim just for kicks, but you can still get burned. The following story is true, the names have been changed because this happened 4 years ago and I don't remember them: I operate a rental center. I rent contractor and construction equipment. A gentleman, Mr. Smith, entered the establishment and inquired about renting a generator. Mr. Smith was videotaped entering and leaving the premises. To rent the equipment, Mr. Smith had to show a picture ID. He used his driver's license. He paid for a one week rental with his credit card. He signed the credit card slip and the rental invoice. After one week, he decided he would like to keep it a month, again he used his credit card and signed the slip. Then he paid for an additional month, again with the credit card. I then received notification that he was contesting the charges. No problem right? I have the guy on camera, I have his signature on everything. I have his driver's license, his date of birth, heck I even know what kind of car he drives and its license plate. (We get that sometimes.) The credit card company (VISA, yes that VISA, not some intermediary) sided with him. His claim was simply it wasn't him. He even convinced a judge in a court of law. So, not only was I out $1500 in rental revenue, he also never returned the generator ($2300 retail value). I was not the only business affected. In total he got away with better than $10,000 worth of merchandise. He got away with it because he was in his mid 40's, had no criminal record, and had never disputed a credit card purchase. The good news is, he got greedy. About a year later, he ended up in jail for trying the same sort of thing again. The moral is it sucks when you have to money back that is rightfully yours. Unless you get DNA from them, there is always someone who will weasel out of paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 good idea, you could make them give a hair.. or spit in a lilttle tube.. then you have DNA Dont worry, i am COMPLETELY joking.. How did he get away with that in court... on video camera? Tony~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 He said "Judge that isn't me. It looks alot like me, but it isn't me." I was then asked to prove it was him. The judge decided since the credit card company believed it was not his signature on the sales slips, he could be telling the truth. I was absolutely floored by the stupidity in the room. After being warned against using profanity, I decided it was best if I just left. The whole thing was like a bad nightmare. I was looking for a rabbit hole and the Mad Hatter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 thats nuts... scary to think that could happen to just about any business... :-x Tony~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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